Discussion:
My Conversation with a Liberal
(too old to reply)
Fred Liken
2004-08-20 21:08:16 UTC
Permalink
Supporting links submitted to this thread to date, if you can disprove
lol, typical Jordie.
J: Saddam Hussien is innocent. Here's proof. http://tinyurl.com/abm7
Um, that doesn't prove he's innocent...
J: Are you saying that you can disprove http://tinyurl.com/abm7 ????, moron!

Sigh.... sad, but typical. Oh, screw it; it's not sad. He doesn't know
how pathetic he is, so no need to feel sad for him. Um, talking about
someone else, not you Jordie.
http://forum.johnkerry.com/lofiversion/index.php/t52611.html
This was in response to the fact that there hasn't been many (any?) bills to
bear Kerry's name... which this link supports... just tries to spin that he
"led the fight" as one of tens of sponsors... lol. You lost that one,
parrot. BTW, link for you as well...
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=134
http://www.vote-smart.org/voting_category....4605f52793718d6
broken... nice.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_cat...can_id=S0421103
broken... nice.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1089158,00.html
This was in response to the request for proof that the war with Iraq was
"immoral and illegal" (Jordie's words). Well, his post of an OPINION
(remember, he's not a judge, etc) of Richard Perle which stated that the war
was the moral thing to do... ergo, it "disproves" that the war with Iraq was
"immoral and illegal", as if it wasn't an opinion anyways... Lost that one,
although he'd like to pretend he didn't.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/03/21/iraq.weapons/
http://www.themoderntribune.com/hans_blix_report_to_united_nations_-_hans_blix_iraq_disarment.htm
This was used to support Jordan's claim that the UN inspectors had
unrestricted access (which was part of his bigger fuck up that stated Iraq
hadn't violated UN resolutions)
In typical sound bite fed parrot fashion, he thinks that the report states
that Iraq did that because that's what his parrot masters tell him to
think... In actuality... the report contradicts the claim that UN inspectors
had unrestricted access... from that link above...
"Resolution 687, like the subsequent resolutions I shall refer to, required
cooperation by Iraq but such was often WITHHELD or given grudgingly. Unlike
South Africa, ..., Iraq appears not to have come to a genuine acceptance --
NOT EVEN TODAY -- of the disarmament, which was demanded of it and which it
needs to carry out to win the confidence of the world and to live in peace.
"

In fact, had Jordie had the aptitude to read the link he posted, he would
have seen that the part he chose to quote was later amended with two problem
issues, where it was restricted... Had Jordie had the aptitude to comprehend
his quote, he would have seen that it was narrow in scope, pertaining to a
small subset of requirements, namely, "Cooperation on Process" (hint, it was
the title of the subsection you quoted. Not sure how you missed it.)
Later, Jordie would try to say this said even more.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2554515.stm
lol. The infamous 12000 page document that Jordie keeps erroneously citing
as proof that Iraq was capitulating... When, even Hans Blix says, it was no
more than a smoke screen of recycled documents with massive holes. Yep,
more typical Saddam and more typical parroting.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5380542/
Again, classic logical fallacies. Jordie claimed that all of the agents for
Iraq's WMD were under seal and view of the UN inspectors, et al... His
proof? This is laughable, but sadly all too common from the parrot camp...
his proof was that what we knew was there was still there. Hans Blix
report, once again, says that there was unaccounted for agents. So, if I'm
looking for my wallet and keys, I've obviously got my wallet because my keys
are in my hand... despite the fact I don't know where my wallet is...
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-03-02-un-wmd_x.htm
lol, this was one of my favorite follies. He was trying to prove that Iraq
hadn't violated UN sanctions by moving their illegal weapons by saying that
they didn't have any... after 1994, that is. None the less, my simple
friend, you post a link to a story about a report that someone had seen and
said it said something... but you didn't actually post a link to the
report... Why?

Hey, just so you don't have to take my word for it that your link is
bullshit...
http://www.un.org/apps/news/storyAr.asp?NewsID=9947&Cr=iraq&Cr1=inspect&Kw1=iraq&Kw2=&Kw3=
links to...
http://ods-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N04/246/52/PDF/N0424652.pdf?OpenElement

"In October 2002, Iraq declared the existence of 10 mustard-filled munitions
at
the former Muthanna chemical weapons facility. UNMOVIC was previously aware
of the 10 155-mm mustard-filled artillery projectiles remaining from
uncompleted
Special Commission operations. During operations in mid-February 2003,
UNMOVIC inspectors used remote-controlled drilling equipment to both sample
and evacuate the contents of the projectiles. Laboratory analysis of the
samples
confirmed the contents as high-purity mustard. Both the mustard and the
projectiles
were destroyed in subsequent operations."

Wow, so the UN states that Iraq had illegal mustard-filled munitions in,
what, 2003? So, your link fails, and you once again have to deal with it.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,963108,00.html
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040713-111332-1645r.htm
lol. Jordan used this as proof that Saddam didn't oppress his populace...
As anyone can see, it doesn't even address it.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78461,00.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/2020/iraq030228.htm
Jordie tried to use this as proof that he didn't have missiles that could
outrange 150km. Well, all he proved that Iraq was still producing/acquiring
them...
http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/
http://middleeastinfo.org/article2270.html
Used this as proof the war was illegal because it wasn't self defense...
But, that isn't the only way it can be legal... Since the UN had already
passed resolutions against Iraq that gave the US the authority to do
whatever was necessary to enforce the previous UN resolutions, the argument
was that it was legal. Jordie, again, uses links arguing that apples tend
to be red to prove that oranges are tasty... What a great lawyer he'd be.
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/03/19/boutros_iraq030319
Former UN head says war is illegal... but, sadly, not immoral...
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0305-01.htm
Ditto
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,1158859,00.html
Jordie claims that this link says "The British military say it's illegal."
Oh, but this one states that it was possibly illegal, but, not that it was
illegal, so I guess that means that Jordie either knowingly lied, or simply
read a headline and assumed the rest, or parroted it from another source.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1164612/posts
Oh, the Presbyterians say it's illegal! lol
http://www.emjournal.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/aajune026.html
This article quotes an international lawyer who believes the war was illegal
and says that "most international lawyers" believe it is as well... but what
about the rest? So, you mean to tell me that there are international
lawyers that believe it is LEGAL? So, what's that mean? Oh, that it's all
opinion until it's judged illegal. Innocent until proven guilty, my
remedial friend.
http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-bush-no-mistakes,0,6066607.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

lol. One of my favorite Jordie fumbles... Jordie said that Bush doesn't
admit he made any errors in judgment, to which I asked which error? So, he
posts a link to an article that he believes says Bush won't admit he made
any mistakes...
Needless to say, Jordie dodged the question as to name an error in judgment
he made. But, in classic parroting, he also didn't read the article or hear
what Bush said, from the very article he referenced...
"I don't want to sound like I have made no mistakes, I'm confident I have."

What? Oh, so Jordan just proved he's a parrot eating up whatever bullshit
he'd fed. \
Liberal Spin Doctor : Bush said he made no mistakes!
Jordan : Bush said he made no mistakes! SQUAWK Bush said he made no
mistakes! SQUAWK SQUAWK!
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=64326
Opinions aren't facts, my friend.
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Bush_Justifications_070903.htm
Here he tried to show that...
"You can see a chart of Bush's flip flopping on the issue here with dates
and quotes"

Yet, once it was pointed out that there wasn't any flip flopping, yet a very
sequitor path of reasoning... he revised his position...
http://www.news.uiuc.edu/news/04/0510war.html
To claim that Bush had "wandering excuses"... which was not supported by the
link (which wasn't even a link to the thesis, because he never read it, just
a link to a story stating the existence of the thesis, which surprisingly
the news story itself didn't support his claim). The thesis, which he still
wouldn't have understood had he bothered the read the 200 plus page thing,
simply the multiple rationales used, none contradicting or wandering. Just
a catalogue of rationales to go to war. Oops, IMHO, it looks like he
attempted to do something on his own rather than just parrot, and fell on
his face and bloodied his nose.

(snip)

Wow, not only is it off-topic, but does anyone actually believe Jordie wrote
that? Amazing. Must have his panties in quite a bunch. Please, Jordie,
try to stick to the topics you've already opened and have either lost or
have yet to show you know a damn thing about before parroting the Moore-on
manual, k, sweets? *^_-*
Fred Liken
2004-08-23 16:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Sorry for the top post........but that list is just to crazy to scroll
down through. Well, you Americans have certainly turned a lot of
newsgroups into a rather annoying political arena. Quite honestly I
feel both Bush and Kerry are nothing to be proud of. Same goes up
here in Canada when we had our Federal election. We basically had the
choice between a Liberal party full of shit, drowned deep in lies and
corporate whores, or the Neo-Nazi stylings of Stephen Harper and his
'neo-conservatives'.
Not much choice or difference in either case for both of us??
Oh well, while it is the current sad reality, make sure you vote!
This is true. I just don't understand how people can look at a
preponderance of evidence that they are being used and manipulated and
still insist on being used and manipulated. But I am sure that come
11/2 everything will be sorted out. If not? Well, you'll only have to
hear me complain for a week
Um, why are you saying this is true then go on your little Moore-on
parroting routine as if you didn't just say it was pointless? My guess is
you've so hell bent on not reading anything more than two sentences and then
SQUAWK SQUAWK...
So sad. I blame the liberal society that's obviously bred you as a voter,
like a sheep or a cow.
Fred Liken
2004-08-23 16:17:46 UTC
Permalink
Bush is a moron,
Yes, because all moron's are ivy league graduates...
but a dangerous one, who has used our nation's patriotism
against us, to wage a personal vendetta based on an obsession with Saddam
and out-doing his daddy.
Yes, because the UN's obsession with Saddam over the last 12 years was all
GWB's handywork... and you called him a moron? That's biabolical! To,
like, get the UN to pass resolution after resolution against Iraq while
Governor of Texas. Amazing. Oh, that's right, you're the moron.
And that's just one thing out of many.
That you can parrot.
Kerry is not very likable, and in my opinion his campaign is pretty sad.
Right now all I see out of his camp is knee-jerk criticisms of anything
and
everything Bush does, even if it is something Kerry has suggested in the
past.
Yeah, because Kerry is only about being your president. He has no platform
other than the pre-built ones that Democrates have been bred for generations
to rely on.
But I'll take just about anyone over Bush.
Bush is a hypocrite,
Kerry's a hypocrite...
a betrayer of his own stated faith,
What? lol.
as bad or worse of a flip-flopper as Kerry,
What has Bush flip flopped on? A lot can be parroted about him, but flip
flop? lol.
and like I said, a moron.
Yep, that's what you've been led to believe...
And one more advantage that I'll give Kerry over many politicians, not
just
Bush: he got into politics because he cared about something enough to try
and change it.
lol. That's ripe. You've just proven how brain washed you are. Thanks.
Fred Liken
2004-08-23 18:30:41 UTC
Permalink
So, this time you tried to show "wandering excuses". (Last time it was
flip
flopping, which was disproven, so you again duck and move, change
direction,
and basically wiggle.)
No, I'm saying the same thing over and over again, I can't help it if
you have trouble with reading comprehension.
lol. Wow, nice try, but sadly, everyone knows you don't even know what
you're trying to argue, and that's why you said first, he was "flip
flopping" (not that he couldn't make a charge stick), to which you posted
another parrot's list of sequitor comments all on one side of a coin, that
was that Iraq was going to be taken down. Then you tried to post a link to
a thesis, but rather you just posted a link to an article about a thesis,
which begs the question, did you even know what the thesis said? No. Plain
and simple, because you tried to say it showed a "wandering excuses"
scenario, in which the thesis didn't show, but rather it was a catalog of
the rationales used. But, since you can't admit when you're wrong and your
ego is so huge, you once again try to squirm another direction... how
pleasant.
Bush has not been able to make a single charge regarding Iraq stick.
He's tried 27 different excuses. Why? Because none of them work.
LOL! Proof positive you didn't read the thesis, Parrot. I was going to
list the rationales, etc, but since you'll just snip them and wiggle another
direction, it's kind of a waste of time. I'll give you the benifit of the
doubt... Name your top 7 of the 27 that "didn't work", otherwise, I'll just
sit comforatbly knowing that I, unlike you, read the thesis and know that it
doesn't support your argument at all.
The thesis does make one pretty major error though... when they say
that the whole "imminent threat" thing was played by the media, not
http://www.house.gov/reform/min/features/iraq_on_the_record/
lol, and if you type in Bush and "imminent threat" you get... are you ready?
Drum roll please....

No records match your search criteria

Ta da!
(a really good site, but I don't want to consume space discussing all
237 known lies told by this administration regarding Iraq so I'll stay
with the 11 regarding the threat posed by Iraq:)
Oh, yeah! Once again Jordie spastically jumps in another direction rather
than defend his numerous previous fuck ups... Nice. Squirm, bitch.

Snipped the top five because they never said there was an imminent threat
and the explanation tries to say they did. Just them trying to pad
numbers... None the less, the counter point tries to say there was no
imminent threat... but... fucks that up pretty bad when it states...
Explanation: This statement was misleading because it suggested that
Iraq posed an urgent threat despite the fact that the U.S.
intelligence community had deep divisions and divergent points of view
regarding Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
What? The intelligence community had deep divisions and divergent points of
view? So... there were some that said there was no imminent threat and,
since there were DEEP DIVISIONS AND DIVERGENT POINTS OF VIEW... those that
believed they DID! Oh well, better be on the safe side and assume they
don't.... lol. Nice try.
Statement by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
"Now, transport yourself forward a year, two years, or a week, or a
month, and if Saddam Hussein were to take his weapons of mass
destruction and transfer them, either use himself, or transfer them to
the Al-Qaeda, and somehow the Al-Qaeda were to engage in an attack on
the United States, or an attack on U.S. forces overseas, with a weapon
of mass destruction you're not talking about 300, or 3,000 people
potentially being killed, but 30,000, or 100,000 . . . human beings."
Source: Secretary Rumsfeld Live Interview with Infinity CBS Radio,
Infinity-CBS Radio (11/14/2002).
Explanation: This statement was misleading because, by evoking the
specter of thousands of deaths in a time frame as short as "a week, or
a month," it suggested that Iraq posed an urgent threat.
Wow, the quote is hypothetical to begin with, not a statement that something
was going to happen... yet the explanation is misleading in trying to act
like it was a statement of what was going to happen, not just the outcome if
something was to happen... (BTW, there was missing chemical and biological
agents and missles to launch them, according to Hans Blix... there was US
forces in the area that could have been hit by them...)
The U.S.
intelligence community, however, had deep divisions and divergent
points of view regarding Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. Further,
according to the National Intelligence Estimate, the intelligence
community had "low confidence" regarding whether Iraq would provide al
Qaeda with weapons of mass destruction.
Yeah, hence the hypothetical nature of the original quote, silly dipshit...
Statement by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld
"[N]o terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the
security of our people than the regime of Saddam Hussein and Iraq."
Explanation: This statement was misleading because it suggested that
Iraq posed an urgent threat despite the fact that the U.S.
An example of what I was talking about earlier... The original quote doesn't
state he was an urgent threat. In fact, it simply says he's the most
immediate of the threats.
"The history, the logic, and the facts lead to one conclusion: Saddam
Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise
is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is
to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless
gamble. And this is a risk we must not take."
Good quote from Bush, my friend...
Explanation: This statement was misleading because it suggested that
Iraq posed an urgent threat despite the fact that the U.S.
Again, the same "explanation of why it's a lie"... lol. Grave and
Gathering... not imminent. Once it's gathered up, it's an imminent threat.
Sad thing is that people like you would rather wait until then. :( Looks
like you're parroting without reading... :(
Statement by Vice President Richard Cheney
"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons
of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use
against our friends, against our allies, and against us."
Source: Vice President Speaks at VFW 103rd National Convention, White
House (8/26/2002).
Explanation: This statement was misleading because it suggested that
Iraq posed an urgent threat despite the fact that the U.S.
Ok, that's Cheney, not Bush... first of all... and secondly... it never said
imminent threat. Hans Blix even stated that Iraq had unaccounted for WMD
supplies. So, there's good reason to believe that he still had them. Hans
Blix even stated that Iraq had illegally produced NEW WMD supplies with the
AS2 missle. So, he had and he was amassing... no lie.
It's worth noting that the explanations for each of the above are
explaining why the quote was known to be false at the time it was
made.
Attempted to... but as I have shown, the explanations tend to not match the
quotes and the explanation admits that there was a division on the
philosphies of the intelligence community and that there were some that
believed that it was true.
In retrospect we know them all to be false because no weapons of
this kind have been found in Iraq AT ALL.
Um, again, because you don't find them doesn't mean they didn't exist...
Moronic...
I'm going to have a Subway for lunch, because they are tasty. I'm going
to
have a Subway for lunch, because they are cheap. I'm going to have a
Subway
for lunch, because they are low in calories.
Oh shit, I just wandered! How dare I! Actually, I just have multiple
reasons for going to Subway for lunch today. I never abandoned one for
the
other. I never wandered. I how that since I took it out of the "I hate
Bush!" arena you can see your folly? No? Sigh, so sad.
The difference is that no outside agency proved your first statement
to be incorrect, forcing you to come up with a second and third and
fourth to the 27th statement.
lol. Post which were wrong... but that would actually mean you'd have to
read the thesis, which you don't have the stanima to do because you'd rather
just parrot...
The thesis shows a bunch of non-conflicting, non-disproven rationales.
(BTW, no outside agency disproved anything. Some said thought it wasn't...
some thought it was... hence divisions, you retard. :) )
Oh, BTW, Iraq continued to defy Hans Blix even through March 2003...
when
did the US invade? Oh, that's right, March 2003.
How on earth do you construe the statement from the Blix report "Iraq
has on the whole cooperated rather well so far with UNMOVIC in this
field" to mean "continued to defy Hans Blix"? What color is the sky in
your world? Is up actually down too?
Hans Blix told Saddam to destroy the AS2 missles BY March 1st... Saddam
didn't. See... he defied him.
BTW, I like your selective quoting. Probably because that's all that pops
up in google without having to actually read the report. lol. "in THIS
field" One field... not overall.
Oh, and BTW, Hans Blix stated that Iraq had "Accelerated its
cooperation"
(not that it was cooperating). He also said that they would need more
time
to determine if he was compliant or not... What? 12 years wasn't
enough?
DOH! Read quote in previous paragraph...
lol. Ripe. Classic parroting. You never read the report, you can only cut
and paste the parroting dogma even when presented with a quote from the SAME
report that shows that your little SQUAWK was taken out of context. So sad.
As far as the 12 years... it's not enough time to prove a negative.
Yes, because Iraq, according to Hans Blix, was not doing what it needed to
do to help the process.
If someone doesn't have
something it's very hard to prove they don't have it.
Especially if they aren't cooperating for 12 years.
You have to go
through all the probablities of "maybe they have it here... nope..."
before you can reasonably say that something doesn't exist.
Yes, and hence the UN's explicit requirements to facilitate the inspections
that Saddam violated without failure.
In any case, I'd be willing to give them another 12 years if it had
meant that 1,000 of our soldiers hadn't been killed along with tens of
thousands of Iraqis.
Actually, you wouldn't be willing to, you're just parroting what you've been
told to. Had you actually kept up, you would have understood that another
12 years of Saddam playing in again out again non-cooperation wouldn't have
made a bit of difference, all the while Saddam would continue to try to
build new WMDs.
Mind you, it was too late now anyways. The US had seen the same thing
time
and time again, the world as well. There was already ample evidence of
flagrant violations of the UN that it was pointless and that he had no
intention of cooperating. Mind you, he had 12 years to do so.
The problem is, that before we invaded, as I've said before, Iraq WAS
cooperating.
Who are you that I should care what you say Iraq was doing? I'll stick with
Hans Blix, who said they weren't, thank you very much, my little parrot.
You don't go to war when someone is being cooperative.
lol. Yes, so any time the US would need to use war, he could just
"cooperate" for a week and then kick the inspectors out again and just wait
for the next time the US would need to use war and repeate. You really
should study up on the history, my ignorant little parrot, so that you don't
become one of those people that's doomed to never learn from it.
You go when they're being uncooperative and/or outright dangerous.
Which is what Saddam had been... uncooperative. Only dipshits, like
yourself, didn't see the same exact pattern of action Saddam had done to
hinder the process for the last 12 years... So sad that you still parrot
this bullshit. Had you the ability to put your little ego aside and
actually give thinking yourself a try, perhaps you'd come around...
Hans Blix says that the report was basically rubbish. Go figure. You
should probably quit parroting the 12,000 page document, since it was,
in
Hans Blix's opinion, worthless.
First off, Blix didn't discount the report, the Bush administration
did.
"On 7 December 2002, Iraq submitted a declaration of some 12,000 pages
in response to Paragraph 3 of Resolution 1441 (2002) and within the
time stipulated by the Security Council. In the fields of missiles and
biotechnology, the declaration contains a good deal of new material
and information covering the period from 1998 and onward. This is
welcome."
lol. More of the parrot's handbook. Let us please take this quote in
context. I'll give you the rest of the quote, my ignorant friend...

"One might have expected that in preparing the Declaration, Iraq would have
tried to respond to, clarify and submit supporting evidence regarding the
many open disarmament issues, which the Iraqi side should be familiar with
from the UNSCOM document (S/1999/94) of January 1999 and the so-called
Amorim Report of March 1999 (S/1999/356). These are questions which UNMOVIC,
governments and independent commentators have often cited."

Oh, so I guess the report was not as great as you, errr... Mr. Moore or your
puppet master of choice, suggest...

"While UNMOVIC has been preparing its own list of current "unresolved
disarmament issues" and "key remaining disarmament tasks" in response to
requirements in resolution 1284 (1999), we find the issues listed in the two
reports as unresolved, professionally justified. These reports do not
contend that weapons of mass destruction remain in Iraq, but nor do they
exclude that possibility. They point to lack of evidence and
inconsistencies, which raise question marks, which must be straightened out,
if weapons dossiers are to be closed and confidence is to arise."

Yep... Iraq was asked to give information which they just ignored... why
would they do that?
"They deserve to be taken seriously by Iraq rather than being brushed aside
as evil machinations of UNSCOM. Regrettably, the 12,000 page declaration,
most of which is a reprint of earlier documents, does not seem to contain
any new evidence that would eliminate the questions or reduce their number.
Even Iraq's letter sent in response to our recent discussions in Baghdad to
the President of the Security Council on 24 January does not lead us to the
resolution of these issues."

D'OH! Looks like Iraq was dodging an issue that they were REQUIRED not to,
under UN ressolutions... So, Hans Blix's close to final report pretty much
says that Iraq was not cooperating and that the 12,000 page declaration,
which was mostly reprint, didn't answer the SPECIFIC questions the UN had
asked...

Why don't you read the reports you quote from? Most of your follies aren't
but one or two paragraphs away. Why do you rely on people like me to
actually read them and explain them to you? Why, when you are shown time
and time again that you're mistaken, do you continue to act like you have a
figment of a clue?
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1208-05.htm
Um, I think you posted the wrong link... There's only a splish about the
12000 page document, and the speculation of this partisent rag is that it
would be exactly what Bush and Blix said it was... full of holes and not in
line with what 1441 required... What's your point?
Why the difference in opinion?
There's no difference in opinion, silly goose. You've either posted the
wrong link or you didn't read it...
Because the Bush administration said it
didn't mention weapons
Actually, Hans Blix said that, had you read the fucking report, :).
that we now know they didn't have.
More of your bullshit... Now we know that we haven't found them, but they
were documented as existing and they weren't accounted for, just as your
buddy Blix said...
OK, so the report didn't mention them,
Yep, after the UN specifically asked about what happened to these documented
WMDs it was known to have, so Hans Blix said they were unaccounted for...
which was a problem since 1441 required them to account for them... So sad
you can't figure it out on your own...
the U.N. weapons inspectors didn't find them,
Due to 12 years of uncooperation from Iraq...
and now that we've invaded the country our troops can't find
them either.
Yep, that's the scarry part... They were known to exist by the UN, et al,
and then they went unaccounted for... Poof gone, with no explanation...
Shouldn't have waited so long. :(
How does that make the report innacurate?
Sigh... Hans Blix said the report ommited specific information that was
requested... the report was rubish. Read the fucking Hans Blix report,
thanks. End of discussion. You lose.
If anything all the subsequent actions have proven the report correct.
lol. Didn't you just say it would take more time to find the WMDs, and now
you're saying that since they weren't found it's proof they didn't exist...
You need to pick a philosophy and stick with it. This flip flopping is
making you look like a tool.
5) Bush demanded evidence that the WMD programs were destroyed.
Again, Hans Blix states that there is problems with that as well since
there
were weapons he was known to have that weren't accounted for.
He also says in the report that the problem isn't that there's
evidence Iraq has the weapons or evidence Iraq doesn't have the
weapons, he says that the data needs to be better cross referenced and
double-checked. He says that there are questions and inconsistencies,
but not necessarily deceptions.
He asked specific questions about specific known weapons that went
unanswered... Iraq was playing the same old game... But, this time 1441
didn't allow a way out.
Of course we now know, via 20/20
hind-sight, that there really were no weapons to be cross referenced
Yeah, if that was so, then why would Saddam go down the path of hindering
the UN inspectors and kicking them out for YEARS... Mind you, those weapons
went missing while he had kicked the UN out... Nothing shady at all,
according to your ignorant camp.
"While UNMOVIC has been preparing its own list of current "unresolved
disarmament issues" and "key remaining disarmament tasks" in response
to requirements in resolution 1284 (1999), we find the issues listed
in the two reports as unresolved, professionally justified. These
reports do not contend that weapons of mass destruction remain in
Iraq, but nor do they exclude that possibility. They point to lack of
evidence and inconsistencies, which raise question marks, which must
be straightened out, if weapons dossiers are to be closed and
confidence is to arise."
Um... did you read it? Hans says that there was reason to believe that WMDs
could still exist in Iraq. That's his opinion. So, we have missing WMD
that went unaccounted for and the possiblity that they still exist... and
the fact that Iraq hindered the UN till the last day... Nothing there
points to the conclusion that he still had them and didn't want to give them
up... Nothing at all.... Sigh...
Yes, quite astounding logic there... If you can't see them they don't
exist... Want to play a game of peek-a-boo? Honestly, why do you do
this?
Pure deperation or true ignorance? You just seemed misinformed, but
when
you do stuff like this, you seem stupid.
No, I say it because a CIA report from the last Gulf war showed
evidence that Iraqs WMD program wouldn't last beyond March, 1991...
http://www.fas.org/irp/gulf/cia/960705/73919_01.htm
2. CIA AND DIA HAVE DIFFERENT ASSESSMENTS OF THE SHELF
LIFE OF IRAQ'S UNITARY NERVE AGENTS. BOTH AGENCIES AGREE THAT
IRAQ HAS ENCOUNTERED DIFFICULTY OVER THE PAST THREE YEARS WITH
THE SHELF LIFE OF ITS UNITARY NERVE AGENTS. DIA BELIEVES THAT
THE PROBLEM PERSISTS, THAT THE STOCKPILE OF NERVE AGENTS WILL
BE UNUSABLE BY LATE MARCH, AND THAT DAMAGE TO PRODUCTION
FACILITIES WILL FORCE THE IRAQIS TO RELY ON STOCKPILED AGENTS.
and the U.N. reports show no evidence of an active weapons program
past 1994.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-03-02-un-wmd_x.htm
"A report from U.N. weapons inspectors to be released today says they
now believe there were no weapons of mass destruction of any
significance in Iraq after 1994, according to two U.N. diplomats who
have seen the document.
....
Why would they go and say something like that? Probably because (if
you do a little research) you'll find that Sarin and tabun chemical
weapons have a shelf life of five years. Anthrax, in liquid form, (the
kind that Bush was talking about being sprayed from a cobbled together
remote controlled airplane held together with duct tape) has to be
kept at the freezing point (32 F, 0 C) and even then it will only last
a single year.
I'm not arguing this until you show the actual document being speculated on.
Sorry, that's just my personal preference to look at the document rather
than a sound bite from a reported who talked to a couple of people that have
seen this undisclosed document.

Cough up the document if it truely says that. The only document I could
find relating to that specific date says that there were WMDs found well
after 1994.
Bush was talking about weapons that Iraq is known to have over TEN
YEARS ago. The chance of them still being there after GWI (Gulf War
I), and after years of weapons inspections and still being usable in
any way shape or form is somewhere between slim and none.
According to... you... Not Hans Blix, et al... just you and your camp.
Actually, Hans Blix claimed that Iraq wasn't doing it... "illegally
demanded"? lol. Actually, that was a possiblity to prevent war. A war
that had been justified by the UN.
If the war was justified by the U.N. they would have supported our
decision to invade, which they did not. Who's in charge of enforcing
U.N. resolutions? Um, that would be the U.N...
Actually, resolution 678 authorized the member states (the US, Britian, et
al) to use all necessary means to implement 660 and consequential
resolutions on the matter, unless Iraq was compliant by Jan, 1991 (he chose
not to be). 1441, et al, say that Iraq will face serious consquences if it
continues to violate UN resolutions, which the member states had been
authorized to enforce.

Please don't talk about things you're ignorant of. In other words, shut up.
Because we had no U.N. support we also had no right to ask
Saddam to step down,
No right to ask him to step down? Sure the US has a right to ask him to
step down, as Castro has the right to ask Bush to do so. Because they chose
to give him one last out, which was uncessary, doesn't make it illegal to
ask. You're a fucktard who just tosses around illegal and immoral because
that's what he's been taught to do... So sad.
Under the authority of the previous UN resolutions which stated there
would
be such consequences.
None of the previous resolutions authorized a war.
War's a serious consequence. No previous resolution forbid it as a means to
enforce the resolutions.
The facts of the matter are that the sanctions were working,
PROOF, thanks. Sanctions only work if the government cares about the
people... Millions died because Saddam didn't care about his people and the
sanctions. Continuing sanctions would have been immoral because it killed
far to many people and Saddam didn't care anyways, especially when he's
getting illegal profits from the illegal France, et al, oil trade.
the inspections were working,
That's not what Hans Blix says, so I can only imagine you're just
parroting...
Saddam had no stockpiles of WMD,
That's not what Hans Blix says, so I can only imagine you're just
parroting...
Saddam had no working relationship with Al Qaida, he posed no threat
to us or his neighbors
Um, he supported suicide bombing in Israel... it's documented proof that
even he agreed upon. Family's poor? Go blow yourself up and Saddam sent
your family a check for lots of money. This is documented.
and we invaded the country anyway losing 1,000 of our soldiers
Yes, soldiers die. It's sad, but it's kind of one of the intricate parts of
signing up for the military. Why don't you get that?
and causing the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis
As opposed to the millions that died under sanctions imposed by a UN that
had veto power nations in illegal oil trade...
at a cost of billions and billions of dollars.
This is my favorite... How much is a life worth to you? I guess since it's
an Iraqi's life, not much.
All of which is proven to be true after the fact. Saying it wasn't
doesn't disprove it.
How ironic.

Just a quick question... if Iraq didn't have any reason to fear the UN
inspectors, why did he impede them and send that 12000 page recycled
document that didn't address the specific questions about specific WMDs he
was known to have previously had, all the way until the end?

How many more people would you have liked to have died under UN sanctions
while he did the in again, out again cycle with the inspectors?

The sad thing is, you really don't give a fuck about the people of Iraq.
You don't even give enough of a fuck to educate yourself and at least make a
half ass attempt at defending your position. You're just a parrot that has
jumped on the bandwagon Moore's built you so that you can feel like you're
special. Get out there and vote Bush out and make Moore feel all important.
You're a good little democrate, farm raised by years of socialistic hubandry
to get out there and serve your purpose. Go for it. You're a tool.
Fred Liken
2004-08-23 20:03:08 UTC
Permalink
Kerry's speech at the convention was not a 20 second sound bite, yet he
offered nothing on where he stood. Just showboating. He's got nothing.
THAT'S ON PURPOSE! He's only even a hopeful because of the "Anyone but
Bush" mentality of the Moore-ons, etc. He has to have no opinions or
that
threatens his popularity. Every time he opens his mouth he loses votes
and
squanders his party's shaky lead.
Tell me what GW Bush's campaign is besides, "anyone besides Kerry",
"More tax cuts" and "Terrorism evil".
Go ahead, I challenge you. What is it?
His commitment to the poor (which Edwards likes to spout about but doesn't
have anything to add), for one with health infrastructure improvements, with
15 billion dollars for AIDS relief, his Access to Recovery program, and the
expansion of the Community Health Centers, which has already increased to an
additional 3million people, is part of his 5 year plan for 1200 new or
expanded centers, for an additional 6million. His education reform was the
biggest in recent history. This isn't just talk. The main thing he brought
to the equation was accountability. Something drastically missing from any
liberal's mentality. Now that the economy is doing better and the schools
are improving due to their new found accountability, he's proposing a 50%
increase for education in the 2005 budget. Also, not just for the poor, but
help with this transition process we're going through, much like the post
industrial, where jobs are being offshored and people are having to retool
for new jobs, by helping people who lose their jobs like that obtain health
insurance by giving them a tax credit. Now, this isn't the left philosophy
where you just give people things, mind you. They can chose not to get the
health insurance and not get the tax credit, but for those that are
intelligent enough to know they need insurance and respect it, they can get
it. Also, funding initiatives including 450 million dollars to mentor
disadvantaged youth and children of prisoners and 300 million to reduce
recidivism. That's the republican way, mind you. Spend the effort to teach
people life skills rather than take the easy cheaper road to just giving
them money... but then again, that's the farm process for democrats to raise
democrats.

On the environment, he has the Clear Skies legislation that's more stringent
than any other clean air initiative. He has the Healthy Forests initiative.
He's backed and signed the "brownfields" legislation to cleanup brownfields.
He's INCREASING the overall acres of wetlands and protecting them. He's
created the challenge, and committed America to it, if he's there or not, to
reduce the greenhouse gas intensity by 18 percent by 2012. This, mind you,
is realistic and already going, not just some bullshit left crap designed to
package and market to your ilk.

His commitment to continue the upward growth of the economy, which has grown
by, what, 4-5% this last year, best in what 20 years, by making health care
costs more affordable by helping the small businesses combine purchasing
power, expand medical saving's accounts, as well as reducing the number of
frivolous medical lawsuits which have become rampant under years of shady
lawyers running the country. Also, changing laws so that most of the money
in class action lawsuits would go to the victims, not the lawyers...
currently it's like the lawyers get millions while the victims get 20 cents?
Make it so that they can't shop for a favorable court. This happens all the
time. John Edwards has made millions abusing the legal system, so I
wouldn't expect Kerry to do much there... Update the energy infrastructure
of the nation to reduce waste as well as promote new sources of energy
(rather than the democratic philosophy that allows people to spray coal with
cooking oil and then receive huge tax incentives that have been raped for
years.) Reduce the burden on small businesses when it comes to regulation
reporting, etc. Basically, reduce the bureaucracy while maintaining the
regulations. Like he's already done with the 61 million hours saved with
small business tax reporting streamlining. He'll continue to open up
markets to the US, like he did with Chile and Singapore, IIRC. America can
compete with other countries, but they have tariffs and taxes that drive the
cost up and Bush has worked to get rid of that hurdle. We're talking around
12000 extra dollars in just taxes on earth moving machines compared to the
EU, etc. And, his tax cuts, which expire in 2005 or so, would make the
average family making 40000 a year have a 112% increase. That's around a
grand a year out of the average middle class family's pocket. That's not
chump change, and Kerry's promised to raise their taxes a grand?

And, terrorism. Do we really need to go into that one, because even your
camp believes he's better than Kerry at fighting it.
Eric R.
2004-08-30 14:05:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Liken
Tell me what GW Bush's campaign is besides, "anyone besides Kerry",
"More tax cuts" and "Terrorism evil".
Go ahead, I challenge you. What is it?
His commitment to the poor
ROTFLMAO! That's so funny it doesn't even merit a reply.

-Eric
Fred Liken
2004-08-30 22:27:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eric R.
Post by Fred Liken
Tell me what GW Bush's campaign is besides, "anyone besides Kerry",
"More tax cuts" and "Terrorism evil".
Go ahead, I challenge you. What is it?
His commitment to the poor
ROTFLMAO! That's so funny it doesn't even merit a reply.
What's that old saying about the fool laughing when he hears the truth?
Buddhist, I believe...
Joseph John DiAscro III
2004-08-31 22:12:40 UTC
Permalink
Mr. Bush (I won't call him president bush) has had the largest job loss of
any president in 75 years. In Central Pa alone 5 factories outsourced their
jobs with one on their way out. My taxes went up. The 87 Billion dollar
package is going to Iraq when fourty something million americans can't even
get healthcare. His commitment is overseas. What about us. Where do we
rate? Answer that when we "RE-DEFEAT BUSH" on Nov 2. (Six months after
Bush took office all ballots in Florida were counted by an Independant
council and found that Gore actually won Florida and thus the 2000 election,
but, too little too late)
Post by Eric R.
Post by Fred Liken
Tell me what GW Bush's campaign is besides, "anyone besides Kerry",
"More tax cuts" and "Terrorism evil".
Go ahead, I challenge you. What is it?
His commitment to the poor
ROTFLMAO! That's so funny it doesn't even merit a reply.
-Eric
m***@prodigy.net
2004-09-01 11:14:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph John DiAscro III
Mr. Bush (I won't call him president bush) has had the largest job loss of
any president in 75 years. In Central Pa alone 5 factories outsourced their
jobs with one on their way out. My taxes went up. The 87 Billion dollar
package is going to Iraq when fourty something million americans can't even
get healthcare. His commitment is overseas. What about us. Where do we
rate? Answer that when we "RE-DEFEAT BUSH" on Nov 2. (Six months after
Bush took office all ballots in Florida were counted by an Independant
council and found that Gore actually won Florida and thus the 2000 election,
but, too little too late)
There was no such recount.
Post by Joseph John DiAscro III
Post by Eric R.
Post by Fred Liken
Tell me what GW Bush's campaign is besides, "anyone besides Kerry",
"More tax cuts" and "Terrorism evil".
Go ahead, I challenge you. What is it?
His commitment to the poor
ROTFLMAO! That's so funny it doesn't even merit a reply.
-Eric
Fred Liken
2004-09-01 16:52:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joseph John DiAscro III
The 87 Billion dollar
package is going to Iraq when fourty something million americans can't even
get healthcare.
Lies. Fourty million Americans CHOOSE not to have health insurance.
Jayhawker
2004-09-01 16:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Liken
Post by Joseph John DiAscro III
The 87 Billion dollar
package is going to Iraq when fourty something million americans can't
even
Post by Joseph John DiAscro III
get healthcare.
Lies. Fourty million Americans CHOOSE not to have health insurance.
Right. They "choose" food, clothing and shelter instead.

Face it. Bush is a chump, and all the republicans can do is try to make
Kerry out to be an ass because he served in Vietnam.

The reason Bush had nothing to do with the Swift Boat ads was because he had
nothing to do with Vietnam.

Bush is a little chickenshit that doesn't mind others dying for his causes,
but he would never risk his life.

Jayhawker
Fred Liken
2004-09-01 18:19:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Lies. Fourty million Americans CHOOSE not to have health insurance.
Right. They "choose" food, clothing and shelter instead.
Lies, pure and simple. They choose cigaretts, fast food, name brand
clothes, etc, over health insurance. Every single person in America can get
some form of health insurance. They choose not to do so. They are fiscally
ignorant, true, and therefor make bad decisions, but you can blame that on
the socialists breeding self dependance out of the lower classes.

They don't see a need for it when they can go to the hospital without it and
just default on the bill.
Jayhawker
2004-09-01 19:35:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Liken
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Lies. Fourty million Americans CHOOSE not to have health insurance.
Right. They "choose" food, clothing and shelter instead.
Lies, pure and simple.
I'm sorry you are so rhetorically challenged. I'll be nice from now on.

Jayhawker
Fred Liken
2004-09-01 19:59:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Lies. Fourty million Americans CHOOSE not to have health insurance.
Right. They "choose" food, clothing and shelter instead.
Lies, pure and simple. They choose cigaretts, fast food, name brand
clothes, etc, over health insurance. Every single person in America can get
some form of health insurance. They choose not to do so. They are fiscally
ignorant, true, and therefor make bad decisions, but you can blame that on
the socialists breeding self dependance out of the lower classes.
They don't see a need for it when they can go to the hospital without it and
just default on the bill.
I'm sorry you are so rhetorically challenged. I'll be nice from now on.
So, I guess you concede the point. Thanks.
Jayhawker
2004-09-01 21:39:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Liken
"Fred
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Lies. Fourty million Americans CHOOSE not to have health insurance.
Right. They "choose" food, clothing and shelter instead.
Lies, pure and simple.
I'm sorry you are so rhetorically challenged. I'll be nice from now on.
So, I guess you concede the point. Thanks.
Sure thing. Were you on Bill Maher last Friday night?

Jayhawker
Fred Liken
2004-09-01 22:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jayhawker
Sure thing. Were you on Bill Maher last Friday night?
No, too busy helping your mom for her ping pong ball toss competition.
Jayhawker
2004-09-01 22:08:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Liken
Post by Jayhawker
Sure thing. Were you on Bill Maher last Friday night?
No, too busy helping your mom for her ping pong ball toss competition.
That's most sense I've seen you make on this board!
Fred Liken
2004-09-01 22:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Post by Jayhawker
Sure thing. Were you on Bill Maher last Friday night?
No, too busy helping your mom for her ping pong ball toss competition.
That's most sense I've seen you make on this board!
Yeah, fools tend to mock what they can't understand, so it doesn't surprise
me you can't make sense of what I say.
Jayhawker
2004-09-01 22:31:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Liken
"Fred
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Post by Jayhawker
Sure thing. Were you on Bill Maher last Friday night?
No, too busy helping your mom for her ping pong ball toss competition.
That's most sense I've seen you make on this board!
Yeah, fools tend to mock what they can't understand, so it doesn't surprise
me you can't make sense of what I say.
Oh come on. Tell me some more of that Fox News crap you regurgitate.
Fred Liken
2004-09-01 23:05:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Yeah, fools tend to mock what they can't understand, so it doesn't surprise
me you can't make sense of what I say.
Oh come on. Tell me some more of that Fox News crap you regurgitate.
I don't get Fox News, sorry.
Jayhawker
2004-09-01 23:12:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred Liken
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Yeah, fools tend to mock what they can't understand, so it doesn't
surprise
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
me you can't make sense of what I say.
Oh come on. Tell me some more of that Fox News crap you regurgitate.
I don't get Fox News, sorry.
I'll be sure to ask Bill O'Reilly to speak slower, then!
Fred Liken
2004-09-01 23:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
Yeah, fools tend to mock what they can't understand, so it doesn't
surprise
Post by Jayhawker
Post by Fred Liken
me you can't make sense of what I say.
Oh come on. Tell me some more of that Fox News crap you regurgitate.
I don't get Fox News, sorry.
I'll be sure to ask Bill O'Reilly to speak slower, then!
Wakka wakka wakka

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